In conversation with Justice Syed Mansoor Ali Shah – Judge of the Supreme Court Pakistan

Justice Shah, thank you for taking out time to speak with us today. In a couple of sentences, how would you describe yourself?

What did you want to do when you were younger?

Who was the most influential person in your life?

What motto do you live by?

Looking back what kind of impact do you think you have had?

The other area was that of public interest litigation. The law firm allocated time and money to do pro bono public interest cases in the area of environmental law and human rights. This had an impact on many young lawyers and perhaps was the beginning of public environmental interest litigation in the country. Now I see a lot more public interest lawyers in the sector.

Teaching law for over 20 years was the most satisfying. Many of my students are now judges or lawyers, doing really well and making a difference. This brought a human face to our law firm. It was essential to show that law and lawyers are not all about money but can effectively contribute towards social change.

As a judge, I took interest in the areas of human rights, dignity rights, disability rights, environment, and climate change. The jurisprudence coming out of Pakistan on these subjects will have a far-reaching effect.

How have you helped change the role for women in the criminal justice sector?

Introduced the Diversity Policy which ensured that every administrative committee must have a female judge as a member and work together with a male judge. That was not the case earlier. At that time, male judges dominated the committees and the governance of the District Courts. Established a Sexual Harassment Committee and appointed both the female judges at the High Court at the time namely Justice Ayesha Malik and Justice Aliya Neelum as members. Any female judge that felt threatened could raise her concerns before the said committee.

We established the Gender-Based Violence Courts (GBV) with the support of the Asian Development Bank. The logic was that a traditional court atmosphere does not encourage female victims to come forward. The court being full of men and male lawyers asking inappropriate or demeaning questions from female victims of sexual abuse wasn’t conducive. We changed that and provided a special court to deal with these issues. We also developed Standard Operating Procedures for such a court and ensured that a victim doesn’t have to sit in the actual courtroom but can sit in an adjacent room and be video-linked into the court, so that she can be at ease and avoid the public gaze. This helped the conviction rates go up. Now we are taking it these GBV courts countrywide.

We also created the first Child Court. The purpose was to ensure that a case involving a child does not get stuck in the system but is dealt with swiftly to prevent the child from suffering at the hands of the courts. The child court allows the child to enter a friendly space. I believe that these changes have encouraged women to bring matters to court, to have more access to justice. 51% of our population are women. So where are they? I mean, what are we doing by not really including them. It bothers me, actually. So, I tried and wish that we get more female judges in our courts.

Justice Shah, how have you dealt with the naysayers?

I also think one has to lead by example. In Punjab, by putting a woman in charge of the judicial academy sent a strong message to the naysayers. We have wonderful example of female judges, and people know that they can deliver. We need to create a system that makes them see women perform. It’s important to give female judges ownership.

What is your attitude when you are faced with a challenge?

What steps have you taken within the criminal justice sector to address the gender dimension?

Can you tell us about a time when you have been involved with a trafficking in persons case?

Looking ahead, what more needs to change in Pakistan’s criminal justice system?

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